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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 6:28:04 GMT
Do you think if 2 people respect each other and care for each other they will expect the other person to carry the relationship? I'm not talking those occasions where one can't function, but all the time.
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Post by swannie on Jul 24, 2015 6:43:40 GMT
Hmmmmm I wonder how much care and respect would be involved if one person expected to always be carried. Mutual need maybe? Maybe if one person requires validation through nurturing someone else and one person requires validation through being nurtured then it might work but for how long is the question.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 0:32:36 GMT
Hmm, well, that rather depends on what each person considers "carrying the relationship" doesn't it? I mean, if "carrying the relationship" means sex 3 times a day, no matter what, to one person but maybe not the other, well... ... I still think it all depends on communication, if you aren't communicating and things aren't clear as to what "carrying the relationship" means, which could really be simplified as "expectations", and both people don't know what each other expects, is willing to compromise on, etc, then it's a given there's gonna be some differences. I don't think any of us are mind-readers. I can't count the number of people who I've heard "after you get married it all changes", which obviously is "the expectations come out", even from people who've lived together for years before getting married. Seems obvious to me there were expectations from at least one side (if not both) that didn't come out until then? And, well, then comes the question of whether those expectations are "deal breakers" or not... Beats me. I'm definitely no good at relationships.
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Post by Stumour on Jul 25, 2015 1:43:08 GMT
I'll stick with my own version of a 50/50 relationship.... onanism where both hands get a fair share!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 11:13:26 GMT
Just did a catch up of this thread. Well, like all of you, I have had relationships that moved on from the couple to individuals again...in other words, they split up.
These days I can take full responsibility for my part of what I had created and what had changed in each couple when it was time to move on...but it took me a long time to do this....and so I know I was not seeing it that way while in the relationships.
I've also come to realize, for anyone's relationship with one's self or with others, it is imperative that each person knows deeply and completely and can practice unconditional love for themselves and for each other. If one can really become their unconditionally loving self, and lose their ego levels of identity that like to draw attention to themselves whenever possible, so will try to sabotage unconditional love at all costs...if one can really become this self-aware, then anything and everything is possible....including accepting fully and lovingly a split up if that is part of the journey for those particular people.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 22:48:19 GMT
I'll stick with my own version of a 50/50 relationship.... onanism where both hands get a fair share! I guess what I'm trying to say is that "fair share" is relative to how each person feels in the relationship and their expectations. I was trying to think of an example, so I'll give this a shot... lets say you work in a job with one co-worker (and the boss in there), and you and your co-worker get along really well, share the responsibilities equally, both have the same skill-sets, roughly the same age, hired around the same time (new startup say)... trade off time around vacations, personal events, etc, or in other words have a great "working relationship" (as opposed to romantic relationship, but otherwise very well balanced)... ... and then one day your coworker has their pay-stub out on their desk while you're working on something and you realize that they're getting paid almost twice what you are (!). You do the same work, same expectations... suddenly it perhaps doesn't seem to "fair" to you? Now, maybe you go to the boss, ask for a raise, maybe it comes back to the co-worker, who knows... but the boss says they can't do anything about it, maybe you resent the boss for it, but you might also start to resent the co-worker for it, they make twice what you do they should be doing more, you should be doing less, maybe you start looking for a new job, etc. Point is, what changed? You had a great working relationship up to that point until you realized that - the relationship itself didn't really "change", but rather your *perception* of the "fairness" changed because of you revelation. Heck, what if the co-worker goes with you to the boss and says they want to give up 25% of their pay so you can get a 50% raise and you'll make the same (or not, but maybe the money isn't important to them)... or they'll give up their raise (presuming you both get one) to help bump your pay up (I've done this actually, a coworker that was hired for far less based on less experience, who really 'jumped in' and got up to speed a few years later, my 1% raise would've been 1.5% added to his and I didn't "need" the money - the boss said it wasn't something he could get past HR). Eventually they "leave the relationship" because they don't feel it's fair to them. In any event, going back to a real "romantic relationship", one partner could make more, one could have a more time-consuming job, who does what work around the home, etc... all are things that could not be "50/50" and yet still be perceived by either or both parties as "fair" depending on the people involved. The classic example is, of course, the "stay at home parent" taking care of the house and kids vs. the "working parent" who might even be working two jobs to make ends meet - financially not 50/50, physically probably not 50/50, and yet the two people involved could consider it "fair" or "unfair" depending purely on how they've worked things out (or not) between them? So "fair" isn't always "50/50" in the purest sense of things, it is the agreement between the two people as to what their roles/responsibilities are in the relationship. The "fairness" is the *feeling* that both of them are providing (perhaps differently) in the relationship - *towards* the relationship. It becomes "unfair" when one (or both) starts *feeling* like the other person isn't pulling their side of the 'bargain'? Then it usually breaks down into lack of communication, unwillingness to compromise, etc, the "team" falls apart. And once you stop being "partners" then it's pretty much over. I'm thinking here of some of the "successful" couples I know - one is a stay-at-home mom (kids/family was one of her goals), he works, they share responsibilities around the kids, they're always struggling financially but it works for them. Another, he's the "cook" (great cook too), a PhD and probably earns 3x what she ever has, he's into Civil War re-enactment stuff so occasionally goes off for that, he's "carried" her through unemployment at times, she does most of the yardwork... 50/50? Not really, but it *works* for them and I doubt either one of them has ever even thought it "unfair". My own parents - my mom did some substitute teaching when I was a kid (sucked the few times I got my own mom as a sub teacher :-P), and started working full time when I was in HS, but she really didn't "have to", classic 1950's "relationship roles" but there was never any resentment between them and neither to this day would have thought it anything but "fair". So I guess what I'm saying here is, 50/50 isn't necessarily "50/50 in everything" - it's an agreed upon balance both parties *feel* is "fair", and the breakdown (if it happens) is not necessarily about things not being "50/50" - everything could actually *be* 50/50 (financially, amount of work around the house, dates, vacations, etc) and if one or both *feel* it's not "fair" then it's a problem. And then, of course, there's Donald Trump and the new wife his daughters age, and Hugh Hefner and his bikini model girlfriends/wives... 50/50? Definitely not. "Fair"? Well... doesn't seem it to me, but if they think it is, or they consider it a "fair tradeoff" to get what they want out of it, who am I to say? As Swannie said, maybe not "care and respect" but "mutual need"? I dunno. Wouldn't be my choice, but...
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Post by Stumour on Jul 25, 2015 23:10:23 GMT
Oh, Donald Trump.... never ever mention shredded wheat here ever again. He's taking a hiding over here. Arsehole claims Scots heritage. If he has Scots blood, he'll know we don't take kindly to fuktards takin the piss. He proudly renamed a bit o Scotland on the EAST coast here where he's built a golf course in honour of his auntie's cousin's donkey fae the WEST coast. Then tried to eject folk who actually live there cos one or two houses "spoiled the view" Would be funny if it weren't true.... how's that for a 50/50 split? His half is buy land. the other half can fuck off.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 0:13:50 GMT
I take it you don't feel his "50/50" idea is "fair" then.
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Post by cobtact on Jul 26, 2015 17:54:25 GMT
lol...I think forums1 snapped his boot up in yo azz stu...stick to the topic...I think its relationships are
just unfair...
mind you if I saw my co- workers check being way over mine I would be right pissed off...probably quit
then ...um..you know...sabotage the company...put lip stick on the bosses collar...load up serious por-n to the computers
have the VD clinic call his wife with the bad news....heheee
crap...I am chipper today....note to self...kick bf in nads
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Post by Stumour on Jul 26, 2015 18:03:48 GMT
Me? Stick to a topic? Mr Tangent?
Anyways, how can a relationship EVER be 50/50? As I said, dynamics cannot ever let it be. Can possibly be SOMETIMES 50/50. Even in "perfect" relationships. A daft wee example... if one is ill, does the other put in more simply by tending to the one laid up?
Just got a notion for chicken soup now for some reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 19:41:05 GMT
lol...I think forums1 snapped his boot up in yo azz stu...stick to the topic...I think its relationships are
just unfair...
mind you if I saw my co- workers check being way over mine I would be right pissed off...probably quit
then ...um..you know...sabotage the company...put lip stick on the bosses collar...load up serious por-n to the computers
have the VD clinic call his wife with the bad news....heheee
crap...I am chipper today....note to self...kick bf in nads Sooo... walk out the door while character assassinating the other party... ... and people wonder why I've pretty much given up on relationships.
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Post by tizzahell on Jul 27, 2015 23:29:07 GMT
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Post by swannie on Jul 28, 2015 17:39:12 GMT
Gender roles are a lot of the issue when it comes to what is 50/50 ... a stay at home mum often works as hard if not harder than if she went out to work ... I used to go to work for a break, seriously I did, plus I got respect for working and no respect for bringing up the kids and running the house etc ... gender roles are being reformed which is good, I see young men being stay at home dads now, and us mums round 'ere give them the respect we know they deserve and wish we'd been given.
My daughter works part time, usually three 12 hr shifts a week, brings 2 small kids up and does 80% of the housework, not the 50/50 I would like to see in her relationship, but they're young and hopefully will evolve together.
My current relationship seems to be a good balance of mutual respect for each other's needs, I'm hoping it won't go tits up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 5:02:40 GMT
^^^ I hope so too. The saddest part is how some normally considerate people think they are contributing to helping with chores in a relationship, even when being asked to help more, but cannot see that their partner is carrying the load.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 14:32:05 GMT
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